E7: Burning Bridges and Being An Imposter with Mykle Basha
Hey, doc. That was awesome.
Speaker 2:That was amazing. Thank you so much. Thank you.
Speaker 3:That was I got emotional. Know. I was like, oh, god. What do I do when she's gonna cry?
Speaker 1:Oh, my. I literally was gonna cry. I was like, okay. Okay. Okay.
Speaker 1:Okay. Welcome to Just Between Us Girls. This is Columbus's hub for inclusive conversations on building success in male dominated fields. Whether it's through empowerment, support, or advocacy, we talk all things professional development and breaking the glass ceiling. Welcome to another episode of Just Between Us Girls.
Speaker 3:My name is Ariane Damian, your
Speaker 1:director of business development with Thompson Restoration. And today, we have I'm Michael Basha.
Speaker 2:I am the vice
Speaker 3:president and regional manager of Paradigm Properties here in Columbus. Get it, vice president. Manager of Paradigm Properties here in Columbus. Get it, vice president. So
Speaker 1:I have got to just start this episode by saying, I was really excited to do this in particular because not only are you a friend and a confidant and someone that I really appreciate in this industry, but you're one of the few executives in the property management real estate world in our industry that is a woman. Yeah. And I feel like there are a lot of things that really come with that. Right? Right?
Speaker 1:But in particular, I really wanna hear about your story in getting to where you are. You're obviously pretty young to be, just like where you are, I feel like, in life. Like, you're just a young woman that is doing her thing, and I really, really am excited for people to hear your journey and understand how long you've been on this grind and and understand the the the work.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Awesome. I feel like I fell into property management, which I feel like is everyone's story that's in property management. A long time ago, I lived in Charleston, South Carolina. I had my master's in forensic psychology working at a psych hospital, and I wanted to move back and happened to just take the first opportunity that came along, and it was property management.
Speaker 3:So for about 8 years, I worked just as a property manager, just head down doing the work. And probably about 4 or 5 years ago, I decided I really wanted to focus on growing my career. So I, you know, started going to networking events, making relationships, seeing applying for jobs that maybe I didn't feel I was qualified for to just continue that journey moving forward in my careers. And yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I think you said a key thing there in, like, applying for jobs that you didn't think that you were qualified for. Because for me, I really had that same experience. I've been, blessed enough to have some really strong, leaders and mentors that basically have been like, you know, when I went to get this job, I was told, apply for everything that you don't think that you are qualified for and just see what comes your way. And it was really interesting because, like, for me, girl, I'm a college dropout.
Speaker 1:And I didn't have any industry experience doing what I was going to be doing, but I knew if I showed if I showed up as myself and I've always said this as long as I get in the door as long as I meet someone face to face I will get an opportunity and I would love to talk to you a little bit more about how people in our industry that are women for the most part feel like we talk a lot about this impostor syndrome, and that's a really top, like, popular topic right now in terms of how people see their careers, their rising, and things like that. Do you feel like you've ever dealt with that?
Speaker 3:Yeah. I definitely think I've dealt with that. I actually think a lot of people deal with that at least in moments in their career. Specifically, as women, I think in leadership positions, you go into meetings leadership meetings, and you're not typically surrounded by a group of women. Like, a lot of times, you're the only woman in the room.
Speaker 3:So I think it's easy to have impostor syndrome in those moments when you don't look around and see people like you.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So yeah. I'm glad that you brought that up too because it really speaks to how representation changes the way that we are affected by, like, internally by the environments that we're a part of. Because when you see somebody that and this is something even on my last episode with Alicia, with Alicia saying basically, like, how is it that when you are not represented or when you don't see yourself in a space that you can envision yourself there? But that comfort sometimes just comes from being people from being around people that you can identify with and that maybe you feel like you can voice your opinions a little stronger and things like that.
Speaker 1:I wonder how much in your experience have you seen other women in executive roles in property management or in real estate. Have you ever had that experience?
Speaker 3:Yeah. I think as women, especially, again, and when you're in those meeting rooms and you're by yourself, you I've had experiences where I went to answer a question and a man, you know, would interject and speak for me, and I think it's comfortable to sit back and let them take the space and take the room. And I think that happens to a lot of us. So I think we definitely need to work towards just taking up the space as well, having an equal voice and speaking our opinions and not being afraid to do that. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I think how you build that that up is really it's all about confidence. It's about that internal, ability. Like, when you feel a certain conviction about what you're talking about or when you feel, like, very grounded in the information you're about to present, often that gives you a little bit more confidence about being able to present information or get inter get get ahead of that kind of situation happening or even making it as simple as, I'm talking. Yeah. I'm speaking.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I'm gonna go ahead and finish my thought and not necessarily being like I feel like a lot of times when we see situations like that people are like, well, that was aggressive when it comes from, especially a woman, but it's not. It's assertion of the fact that you are already in a moment, and you are already asking for this space and demanding this space. And when you have a seat at the table that you typically don't, feel like a lot of times it feels like you're either opening or closing doors for the people behind you based on your comportment and based on how safe you play it and maybe how much you tiptoe around. I was allowed in this space, so maybe I don't take up too much room in it.
Speaker 3:I think what you just said, I was allowed in this space, is a lot of our thought process instead of I deserve to be in this space. So I just think, I don't know. Even just in the position that I'm in now, I was at a networking event one time meeting a person in my same position at another company for the very first time. And I introduced myself and they asked my role and my position and I told them what I did and they their initial response was, oh, wow. How did you get that position?
Speaker 3:And I think that's just as women, we feel like we have to prove ourselves that we are, like, more so than the men have to. And you you do. You work twice as hard to make the same point, which causes burnout, I think, very quickly. And it all plays into the imposter syndrome that a lot of us deal with.
Speaker 1:Yeah. In that too, I think there's a certain element of, so in our conversation a little bit earlier, just kinda prepping for this, we talked a little bit about how sometimes you don't realize all the things you've done to get the thing the position you are in or the thing that, you know, is maybe cementing, that you are no longer an imposter in this industry or whatever it may be. And sometimes you don't realize all of these things because it takes either another person saying to you, well, girl, you have done blank, blank, blank, and blank. Of course, you deserve to be here. Or you sitting down and maybe you're doing a resume or maybe you're doing an application for a industry award or whatever it may be, and you actually have to, like, sit there and put together thoughts around what are the differences I've made, what are the changes I've made, or what are the moves I've made in this career.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Why do you think we don't just marinate in our successes a little more? I think
Speaker 3:the example you just gave, I have a colleague that I think when you're in it and you're doing something for the first time, it doesn't necessarily feel like this confident accomplishment that you're, you know, achieving. You're figuring it out as figuring it out as you go. So I think once it's achieved that you personally don't look back and be like, oh, yeah, I killed that. Like, you know all the doubts you had, the trial and error that you went through. But on the outside, other people see, like, well, she did that.
Speaker 3:Like, she accomplished all those things. So I just think we need to have proof in our successes and look at those instead of the thoughts and doubts that we had as we were going through it. Yeah. Surrounding yourself with people that can point those things out to you is definitely beneficial as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I had this, I had a coffee with Julie Simano. I'm a go ahead and shout her out. And it was amazing. It went on tour.
Speaker 1:It felt like ever where it was our first time ever, like, sitting down and meeting for a coffee, and I was so glad she just took the coffee. Because she was someone I've been I had been intending on meeting for a really long time. But in that conversation, I remember talking to her about the very same thing of her being like, you know, you set your goals and you continue to set your goals, and it almost feels like this, like, linear line that you're like, the goalpost keeps moving. And I can't remember who I had said this to, but I was doing a 1 on 1 in my coaching. I know who I said it to.
Speaker 1:Xander, it was you, honey. So I was doing one of my coaching sessions, and one of the conversations we were having is how that goalpost always moves Yep. And how we treat success as this linear, function, when really we should treat it as this, like, stair step. You reach the next goal, you sit in it for a little bit. And then you reach the next goal, you sit in it for a little bit.
Speaker 1:And instead of being this thing that's ever moving, ever changing, always going to be this next thing, and you will always have that. But maybe in between and in those moments where we are getting to the next thing, you at least take a pause and really get to marinate in the back, like, I did this. Yeah. And maybe that's how we allow it to add to our acumen and to our, like,
Speaker 2:repertoire of skills that we feel like we
Speaker 1:have versus something that we were just on repertoire of skills that we feel like we have versus something that we were just on the chase and we were just doing and all of it and now it's just under our belt. And somehow we pulled it off and we don't know how, and it feels like this frantic energy. But I think a lot of people, no matter what your role is or where you are at in your career, we are all literally winging it.
Speaker 3:No. I think that's I think that's great advice. I feel like for a long time, I struggled with the what's next. Like, I accomplished that. What's next?
Speaker 3:And there was no space in between. Yeah. I feel like I could be in the middle of chaos trying to achieve multiple different things, and I'd be like, you know what? I should get my PhD right now. Like, I was constantly adding without ever stopping to reflect on what I've accomplished so far.
Speaker 3:So I do think you have to take those moments. Continue going for the what's next, but stop and pause and look at what you've already accomplished.
Speaker 1:I think I remember you telling me that you were thinking about getting your PhD.
Speaker 3:Always. I just try to add on all
Speaker 1:the time.
Speaker 3:Yeah. What
Speaker 1:could I be doing? I mean, exactly. What could I be what else could I be doing? Yeah. And especially, I mean, you're a mother.
Speaker 1:You are an executive in this company. You do a crazy amount of volunteering and a lot of, like, nonprofit work. And in this and, like, this isn't in our necessarily agenda right now, but I did just wanna toss in because we've kind of gotten here. In this, I also find you're an incredible friend and advocate and ally. How do you and I know this is kind of a big question.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:But how do you juggle that? Because I find, above all else, you're
Speaker 1:also someone who's that? Because I find, above all else, you're also someone you show up
Speaker 2:to my events with flowers.
Speaker 1:You show up to people's award ceremonies. You make sure that you're showing up at least in, like, the groups I have seen us running in and, you know, just like industry friends and things like that. When you when there is a moment to celebrate someone, you show up every single time and you show up with bells and whistles on.
Speaker 3:Well, that was so nice. I will cry on this podcast. I don't think I always handle that well. I think that that plays a lot into imposter syndrome where you, you know, are running an office, and then maybe you have to work late that night because you're trying to handle all the things. So then you feel bad you missed taking your daughter on time to soccer practice.
Speaker 3:So then you feel like you're failing as a mother in that role. And then, you know, you missed a call from your friend when they needed you because you're going to soccer practice. And I feel like that causes impostor syndrome while you're trying to, like, juggle all these different roles, and you feel like you're not giving anything 100%. And I think you just need to have grace with yourself in those moments and, again, have proof of your successes in those moments. So, yeah, find find the things.
Speaker 3:You can't juggle
Speaker 2:all the you can't juggle all the things. So find the things that are most important
Speaker 3:to you and give as much as you can to those, and the things that will fall back will fall back. Yeah. So yeah. Well and
Speaker 1:also, like, there's a lot of affirmation and like grounding in that too of like when you have been a good friend today, regardless of whether you have been a good boss or if you have been a good employee even or whatever you have been great at today, maybe you take a minute in the car before you go to soccer practice and are like, I was a good boss today. Yeah. And I may be a 60% mother right now. Yeah. Or whatever it may be, you know, but, like, rather than focusing, I think something I'm reminded of so often is, Adam will tell me all the time.
Speaker 1:He's like, people will harp all the time on the criticisms they have received, but not often think about the compliments that throughout the years we have collected and the things that people say positively about us. We will choose to focus on the things that maybe we're not so great at or the things that people have said negatively about us. But I think that another aspect of that imposter syndrome piece is when you don't feel confident in yourself and grounded in where you are and have the ability to self affirm and self and have the audacity. Like, to choose to have the audacity because there are a lot of people out here, male or female, that just choose to have audacity Audacity. Yes.
Speaker 1:On any given day. And I don't mean that in the negative sense of the term because there are people that choose to have audacity in the negative sense of the term where you show up and you decide, today, I was a great boss. Mhmm. And if some other things have gone to the side, at the very least, I have that. Yep.
Speaker 1:Today, I was a great mom. Today, I was a great sister. Today, I was a great daughter.
Speaker 3:Yep.
Speaker 1:And if some places I need to fill up later in the week because I have filled this place up now, that that can happen. But first, we are here. And it really is about this, like, I I've lately, I've been more on this, like, honey, I've been going to yoga. Hot yoga? I've been going to hot yoga.
Speaker 1:And I've been talking to people about things like affirmation and grounding and being in a space of mindfulness where you understand where you are in this current moment and you try to understand what may come
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But what you need now. And it feels like a lot of the times when we are inflicting on ourselves this belief of I am not enough or I am not in this place because I deserve it. I'm a, you know, I'm a higher for this reason or I'm the culture higher, whatever it may be. I think a lot of the times it comes from this place of us not necessarily knowing where our worth is to this organization or to these people or whatever it may be. Oh, not this microphone, honey.
Speaker 1:Okay. We're here. So I really feel like like sometimes we just have to, like, be if if you're not gonna do it for yourself, who else is gonna do it? Yeah. Because nobody knows the intricacies of all the play of all the roles that you play in a singular day.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I think that there is benefit to just being delusional in those moments. We talked earlier about how I saw a recent study by HP that men will apply for jobs, that they feel they they fill 60% of the qualifications they're asking for. But women will typically not apply unless they feel they meet all of the qualifications, and I think we just need to do better with that. Like Yeah.
Speaker 3:I'm you know, we have to just be more confident in what we bring to the table. So I think I think being a mentor to the women that are coming up in that and just, you know, filling them up and setting that, you know, women that are coming up in that and just, you know, filling them up and setting that opening that door for them, like, that's just just change we have to start making.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And all of that, but maybe building that community aspect too. Because here's the thing, I have never felt more confident in my career Mhmm. Than this moment where I am so impressively surrounded by people that challenge me, but in some ways, I feel represented through them. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like, for example, like, even you and I, like, we are very different. Mhmm. You know, like, you're a mom. I am not a mom. You may be a little bit older, which you always are like, I'm a grandma.
Speaker 1:This girl is not a grandma. But in in some things where we are very different, but also I feel represented in our core values that we think we need to bring the business and to life in general. And I think a lot of the women that I'm surrounded by right now, at the very least, I feel represented in people that I think are gonna make a change in represented in people that I think are gonna make a change in a better way in this industry. Yep. And sometimes when you're surrounded by that, you show up more boldly.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Like, I used to have, a boss that told me I
Speaker 3:needed to dress more
Speaker 1:in more neutrality. I also had someone that told me I needed to dress more in more neutrality. I also had someone that told me that I needed to lower my tone
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I know. In order to
Speaker 3:Yep. Had that.
Speaker 1:In order to come off more assertive Yep. Whatever. And I've had people throughout my life that have told me that in some way, shape, or form, something needed to change in me for me to show up more powerfully in certain spaces versus now being surrounded by people that are like, if you lean in fully to what you are and who you are, you will do exactly what you need to be doing. Yeah. And that's honestly like, I'm I'm like proud to say, and I don't think I realized it kind of until this moment actually.
Speaker 1:I feel like that has led to a lot of the success I'm having right now in that I don't I'm not faking any space I'm in right now.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I agree. I think that typically comes with, you know, experience and growth. I feel like you definitely got there at a much younger age than most people. But I do feel like, yeah, you find the people that are gonna be in your corner.
Speaker 3:You find the people that are gonna speak positively on about they're gonna bring your name up in opportunities when you're not around in a positive place, and you surround yourself with those people and you, in turn, become more confident. I feel like everyone says that you become the people that you surround yourself with. So it's definitely a large part of battling dealing with those Yeah. Imposter syndrome.
Speaker 1:And and that's not to say either that you just surround yourself by people that are similar to you. Because again, like, you also have like, there are these innate differences that surround us all, right? Like we, in some way, shape, or another, will always have some differences, and that is our power, is realizing that you're in this place, and I'm in this place, and our one friend is in this place. And understanding that as long as we have this foundation of however you slice the cookie, I just wanna make sure that this person feels heard, taken care of. And you know what?
Speaker 1:Like, you know how some people say a lot of people say, in serving others, you end up somehow serving yourself because you fill these holes that you didn't realize were not full.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I felt that way when we did the sleep out, for Huckleberry House. This was the first year I ever slept outside. There is a annual sleep out where, Huckleberry House is this amazing organization for teen, teens and other youth that are experiencing homelessness. And you go and you experience that for a night. And we slept outside of lower.comfield.
Speaker 1:Yep. You've done it 4 years now.
Speaker 3:Yep.
Speaker 1:What what has that done for you?
Speaker 3:So I guess I grew up my parents are foster parents, so I grew up with all those kids for a long time. But, a, I mean, obviously, you connect with those people that you like, you can never understand what they've gone through ever, but I feel like it at least kind of bridges the gap a little bit. You learn not to judge a book by its cover, that there are reasons that people, you know, are the way that they are. But it's also been, like, such a huge I don't know. Like, I don't wanna call it networking, but you connect with people Yeah.
Speaker 3:That care about the same core values as you. And I feel like surrounding yourself with people that care about the same things in service to the community as you, it just helps you grow as a person so much as well. So it's been really nice in that regard.
Speaker 1:I would tell you, girl, one thing that was so interesting to me was the aspects I didn't think about that night. Mhmm. So one of the things, for example, it got so cold in the middle of the night. I mean, it was like it was only 50 degrees. I mean, we were lucky.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It was like 50 degrees.
Speaker 3:It was freezing rain on our face the entire night. It was like Woah. Degrees. It was horrible.
Speaker 1:And yet, I mean when the morning dew came and you know, there's like everything is I mean you wake up kind of like soaking and it's not like absolutely intolerable, miserable, or whatever, but like for that night, of course. But I got to thinking like if this is how I woke up every day
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Where you're not comfortable. Yeah. And I have to go and take on life. Yeah. And, like, the little piece we have is resting in our beds at night Yeah.
Speaker 1:And you have to wake up in, like, a sopping wet, like, like, sleeping bag. Let's be real. And you're and you have to wake up and you go have to decide how you're gonna get fed that day and how you're gonna make money that day and all these things. And then not the and then the other thing, girl, when we noticed that there were, like, little Bugs. Bugs on the ground.
Speaker 1:Oh, my god. I was like, I didn't even think about the bug. And, like, what a champagne problem to have, might I add, first of all. But I was like, oh, my god. The bugs are gonna get in my hair.
Speaker 1:I gotta move to the stair steps. So then we moved from under the tent to under the stair steps. And, like, there were just all these elements that I didn't think about. And sometimes being in the shoe of another person in that way really makes you think about the things you don't have to think about every single day. Yep.
Speaker 1:And I think that, like, that is just another thing. Like, when we sit there and we really examine, that day I went home, and I just felt so gracious for everything that I had and everything that I, like, owned and was a part of and all the community that I was surrounded by and like my family that didn't allow me to fall into this, you know, situation on a daily basis. And I think sometimes when you move in that space of like, I am grateful for blank today or I can't believe I just did blank. And you take that moment to really marinate in whatever you have done, whatever you accomplished, no matter how little, how big. Sometimes, honey, I have a protein yogurt and I'm like, yes.
Speaker 1:I did it. I did it today. But when you do stuff like that Yeah. And you cheerlead for yourself in that way in these little minute ways throughout the day, you don't wait for others to do it
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And you don't feel like no one's doing
Speaker 3:it? I think as a leader, you have to put yourself in those uncomfortable situations. Like, you have to grow as a whole person. Like, you cannot just be doing the same schedule every day with no uncomfortable situations. Like, if you wanna lead all the different people on uncomfortable situations.
Speaker 3:Like, if you wanna lead all the different people on your team, you have to you have to be doing those kind of things in the community and grow.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So You have to choose. I think you just have to choose sometimes to be uncomfortable in order to grow. And I know a lot of people say that, but that's in terms of like, you can be a really great leader. But if you're a leader that doesn't understand what it is to serve other people, you won't be a whole leader.
Speaker 1:If you're a leader that chooses to ignore some of the very small issues that may be happening in your company because maybe it's not affecting you on the day to day, but you know that it's affecting everyone else on the day to day, you cannot be a whole leader. I feel like you have to make sure that you are filling your time with understanding the perspective of the perspectives of other in a really true way. That's one thing operational situations have really taught me is, like, you have to be able to step into someone else's shoes.
Speaker 2:You have to be able to step
Speaker 1:into, something Tim says very often whenever we're looking at our procedures and operation and things like that is we can't build a role out according to a person. We have to build it out holistically Mhmm. Of, like, even if we're not building a role out according to a person. We have to build it out holistically. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Of, like, even if it's not this person, what does this company need? Or what do we need as people, as a like like, you have to consider different elements if you're gonna be in charge of anything.
Speaker 3:I well, I think that, obviously, the biggest aspect of leading your team is being a successful business. But equally as large is just taking all all anyone that works with you and making sure that you are underneath them, lifting them up, and building them to be the best they can be, they they are not likely gonna be with you forever there. But, like, how can you make them better for whatever is next for them? And I feel like not everyone in leadership sees that as, like, one of the most important aspects, but I think that you have to do that.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. I think you said really important something really important there about maybe they won't be with you forever. Mhmm. I think that's something a real a realist understands about the situation of executive leadership and knowing what is good for your people.
Speaker 3:Yep.
Speaker 1:There are some people that are not meant to be doing what they're doing in this moment forever. Yep. But you can give them the tools and the skills in your time with them to build them up to just be a better person, to set out into society and do what they need to be doing, period. Yep. And that's that's, I mean, that's leadership.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Definitely. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. On the other side of it too, you kind of have this aspect of sometimes you don't have great leaders, and sometimes you don't get to be a great leader based on the circumstances that surround you. Right? Mhmm. And I've been in situations where, you know,
Speaker 3:you have someone that
Speaker 1:is put in a tough position and that it almost feels like other people get put into tough positions as a result of that person not being, you know, able to be who they wanna be in that moment. But still, you should be able to be who they wanna be in that moment. But still, you should never leave a job under negative not that you should never because things will happen. Right? Of course.
Speaker 1:But burning bridges is not the answer. And as much as you can avoid it, I think you should.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I think you should be honest with your supervisors about why you may be leaving, but you should never leave a job without them wishing that you weren't trying to get you to stay. Yeah. Because I had jobs where so unexpectedly years later, my supervisor from that position was my next opportunity. And, like, you would never expect it, but it definitely happens more often than people realize.
Speaker 3:So always leave on good terms no matter how you feel about where you are.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I think that's, a really good point to make too because here's the thing y'all. We have to be a realist here. Okay? We have to be very realistic with the situation.
Speaker 1:Not often do people in leadership positions leave their positions, and often do people in leadership positions leave their positions and then end up going to a lower position. Yeah. Most times, it is an advancement opportunity that we are looking at here. With that, I think we have to look at the fact that when you again, you're to look at the fact that when you again, you just never know when your next opportunity is gonna come from. Any access you have to a person that is in a leadership or executive position, leaving a good lasting impression on them, or at the very least, let people make their own mistakes.
Speaker 1:Yeah. If someone does wrong by you, trust. They will at some point figure out that they have done wrong by you and let them do their wrong. And I know that sometimes when it comes to our egos, we don't we don't feel like they should be the ones getting the last word or whatever it may be. But let someone do their wrong because at some point or another, it will come back around.
Speaker 2:And
Speaker 1:you will either have an opportunity to give them grace and they may be returned with an opportunity or you're in a situation where you're in an advantage.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I think that's something that oftentimes we don't like. You don't have to make all of your own mistakes.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:And that is something I think a lot of people don't consider when you have a bad boss or when you have a bad, like, you choose you have to choose your battles.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Well, I think what you said a minute ago was a really good point too. You may feel like your supervisor is not supportive of you in that in that career, but you have no idea what they are dealing with and the pressure that they are getting. Yeah. So, like, maybe that is not who they would be in a different culture, in a different environment.
Speaker 3:So I just think, again, say what you need to say, but be respectful and don't burn the bridge because you just don't know what opportunity may present itself later.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And always give people the opportunity to be better. Yeah. Because that's the other piece too. So I had this video.
Speaker 1:This is, like, totally unrelated example, but it really comes back to this. I had this video that blew up that I did, in partnership with a restaurant.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 1:And the video ended up blowing up in a bad way because a lot of people had gone there and not had the same experience that I had as an influencer, content creator, whatever you may I like to call myself a content creator. Okay? I don't like I don't wanna influence nobody. I just want you to see, and if you wanna come, cool. Come.
Speaker 1:But I realized in this, a lot of people were, like, saying negative words to me regarding making the video because they're like, well, you got a sweet deal. You're a content creator. Like, of course, they made the presentation beautiful and everything tastes the same blah blah blah. What they didn't realize was that this was actually a buffet experience. Everyone had the same experience that day.
Speaker 1:But because my video had blown up, it kind of got the the brunt of the whatever. And a lot of my replies to this was, if you didn't have a great experience at this place, leave a review. Let them know how they can be better for you next time.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Give them an opportunity to be better for others even if something was bad to you. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Like And your bad experience doesn't need to take away from your good experience.
Speaker 1:Exactly. And and both be true. And that's a portion of burning bridges too is when you burn bridges for other people by reflecting your experience on what they may who knows if in 5 years that you haven't worked at this organization? Maybe they went through an entire restructuring.
Speaker 2:Maybe they
Speaker 1:worked on their core values. Maybe they worked on their cultural values. And you sitting here and telling your friend, and here's the thing, you should always be real with your people. You should always let them know, you know, this was my experience there. Or I don't like this person because, like, however, always, always allow people to have their own experience and create what they may out of a possible change that was there.
Speaker 1:I feel like there's this, like, talk about toxic positivity and about how, like, you can't see everything from a glass that's half full and all these things. And this is true for sure. But I feel like grace and goodwill and putting that putting that out there so that people can maybe pick it up along the way and decide that maybe today's the day I give grace, or maybe today's the day today's the day that we think about how people can do better and give them an opportunity to do better, that's that's the key too.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I think your first response if if I have employees that are just, like, not cutting it. Right? I don't think your first response should be, like, like, well, they have to go. Like, I feel like I mean, and maybe they do.
Speaker 3:But I feel like your first response needs to be, like, okay. What extra time can I put in? Like, what can I do with them to help them get there? I feel like there's so many reasons why they may not be cutting it initially. So I just I don't think you're a good leader to just right off the bat, write them off.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So That's something too. I think a lot of people almost, like, go through that situation of, like, when does the buck stop? Yeah. You know?
Speaker 1:And and honestly, when does
Speaker 3:it? Yeah.
Speaker 1:I think that it does when you define your core values and you define the things that matter to you and to your organization and you decide because the buck stops in different places for everyone. Yeah. If you're a company that prioritizes finances, boom, they're not making enough money, honey. Boom, they're gone. If you're a company that prioritizes great people that just need more training, boom, you just need to train these people higher or better.
Speaker 1:If you're a company that prioritizes making sure that there are like minded people there, you know, all these different things, you have to that's for you to identify and for you to define, And that's really where having that identity and having that self awareness, whether it's for you or for an organization, really changes the the the scope that you see things through.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I definitely think, obviously, there are people who are just not gonna make it. Right? But I fully believe in leaving a situation feeling like I did everything that I could possibly do. And Yeah.
Speaker 3:I just think you should never walk away from something without feeling that way. So
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. I feel the same way. I think that there's a lot of, I think there's a lot of when you feel done wrong, you wanna do wrong to somebody else. And that's just the normal human reaction.
Speaker 1:Right? But it's not about being reactive. It's also about being proactive and strategic regarding your next move because who knows? Proactive and strategic regarding your next move because who knows if that next move may be what cost you that next opportunity. All of a sudden, you broke off this relationship with these people, and now you have people calling these people like, hey.
Speaker 1:I know you were involved. Yeah. What was the
Speaker 3:vibe? You should never respond in the moment in anything that is high emotion. Like, I preach that to my team all the time. Like, take a minute, pause, respond the next day. You don't always need to respond immediately.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Especially when you're feeling strong. Thanks. So
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Wait until you're level headed and not just upset.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And as a leader too, praise gets done in public, but criticism is in closed doors.
Speaker 3:Agreed.
Speaker 1:That is something that, you know, maybe I feel like this is kind of like an older thing, but like, oh, let me embarrass them in front of their coworkers and let me make sure that their the people around them know so that they don't do the same thing. But public shaming in an organization does not create a space that allows you know what? That creates the opportunity to make mistakes and fall upwards from those mistakes. Yep. I'm not saying everybody in your organization should be making mistakes left and right, but I am saying every mistake that someone makes that is really trying to get it right will also potentially propel them forward in a way as long as it's not a fundamental thing that is destroying their job duties and what they need to be doing just period as a person, but say they didn't go about the right thing the right way.
Speaker 1:The intention was right, but the done was not correct. I just had this conversation with my daughter. You knew I had to bring him in. Mhmm.
Speaker 3:But it's it it's the same with The Office. So she got her 1st b on a report card. She was a straight a girl, and she was upset about it. Right? And we had a conversation our if if b's are good grades.
Speaker 3:Like, does b count as a good grade? And I said, there is a difference. If you got a b because you tried your hardest and you exhausted yourself and you were playing sports and you had all this practice, but, like, you did everything you could do and you got that b. Like, I am so proud of you for that. Like, that's amazing.
Speaker 3:But if you got a b because you you have to you were watching TV and you weren't turning in your homework, you were on FaceTime with your friends and you just, like, weren't giving it your all, then that is that's probably a problem and we should discuss it. So I just I agree with what you just said. There is a difference in someone making a huge effort and maybe making mistakes than somebody who who just doesn't care and isn't trying.
Speaker 1:And I think that that makes the difference. The lens you and that's why conversation needs to happen. Because you do need to understand. How did we get here? Did you make this mistake out of carelessness, or did you make this mistake because you are learning and you are trying and you wanna do the best by these people because property management is not easy?
Speaker 3:Yep.
Speaker 1:And those are questions for you, and those are questions for your boss, and those are questions for everyone involved in the situation because what are you doing to just be better next time?
Speaker 3:Yeah. I had a conversation with your team actually before, and it was such great advice that a lot of people will tell you to take the personal out of it. Like, it's just business. Like, you need to, like, supervise your employees as a business. But your team sat down with me once and was like, you know, you cannot take the personal out of it.
Speaker 3:Like, you have to know what's going on with them. You have to I rec I was recommended a book called, Radical Candor. Yes. Oh
Speaker 1:my gosh. I remember you read that. Yes.
Speaker 3:Such a good book
Speaker 2:that
Speaker 3:talks about in leadership that you cannot supervise staff without caring about them personally. Like, you cannot give criticism without actually caring about that person, and that's not easy. Like, there are just people that you're just not gonna care about naturally, but you have to find something to care about and, you know, mentor them and help grow with them with that personal aspect or you will never be the leader that you could be. Yeah. So
Speaker 1:Understanding where people are in their lives really allows you to understand where their performance is at. Mhmm. I had someone on my team that had not slept for 2 months.
Speaker 2:Oh, wow.
Speaker 1:He literally had like this, like it was a it was a a couple of situations, but I was seeing certain things in their performance where I'm having conversations, and this is a person that's always done well and that I love and that I appreciate. And I was just like, what is going on, friend? Break it down for me. Like, I need to understand because is this a training opportunity? Is this you need more support?
Speaker 1:Is this like, what is going on? And I come to find out this person has just not slept. Yeah. Their basic human need right now is that they need to figure this situation out first before they can
Speaker 2:perform in any other capacity. And this even
Speaker 1:takes me back to my capacity. And this even takes me back to my episode with Laurie where she had told me, nobody knew I was going through a crazy divorce. And that I was in this, like, crazy situation, and I was expected to show up every day and just do the things. And you take the human element out of our work when our work is based in humanity and that the work that we're doing in our community. And that's why you need to talk to people.
Speaker 1:And that's why you need to do coaching, and that's why you need to go out of your way to understand the human elements that are affecting the way that people work around you. There is no exactly the same individual on this earth. Yeah. And when you find what your little light is, what this little light of mine, like, make that thing shine. Because, like, for me in particular, and this is just like an example, just because I like for people to leave this podcast with, like, actionable items.
Speaker 1:Right? So the thing that I found for me that was my special little light is that I really like to amplify the voices of those around me. I also like to dress up in ridiculous outfits. Feathers, honey. I'm talking contrast in colors.
Speaker 1:I'm talking I wanna look like boo boo the fool when I walk through the door. But it's because that's where I'm most comfortable is peacocking. Yep. I love to peacock, and that's kind of what allows me to feel the most myself. And in the spaces I felt the most myself when I leaned into those at work, in my personal life, and every single thing that I was doing, I felt more confident because I was comfortable.
Speaker 1:Yeah. If you feel the most confident in your pajama, honey, find a form of pajama that you can wear to work.
Speaker 3:Well, I think it's hard too because I don't know if you've dealt with this, but as somebody who, like, very much is a what's next person and trying to do all the things. And there were a lot of years that I was told, oh my gosh. You're too loud. You're too much. Like like, calm down.
Speaker 3:Like, all the things. Like, and I think that, you know, you can you can let that get to you and that's where you deal with the imposter syndrome. Right?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:But I think when you grow into that and you decide these this is who I am. These are the things that I wanna be true to myself and you just lean into that instead of shy away from it. Like, I don't know. That's when people can see your confidence and
Speaker 2:because they're seeing you.
Speaker 1:Yeah. You don't have to put on a mask. You don't have to put on an act. You don't have to do any certain thing to where you feel like you're overcompensating in a different place. Yeah.
Speaker 1:When people feel like they see you Mhmm. That's when they wanna be around you. And I can really identify with you saying, oh, we about to get deep, honey. Are y'all ready for this? I feel like that's one place for me I was told for a really long time.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You need to chill out. I come up from a family of immigrants. And when you immigrate to this com country, at least in my family's experience, they just wanted to blend in. Mhmm. They did not want a lot of attention, on our family, on themselves.
Speaker 1:They just wanted to put their heads down and work hard and do what they needed to do to get through the day to day. Yep. And I really did not identify with like, my mom would always sit me down and just be like, you just need to, like, sit down and you just need to do work and you need to, like, not stand out and you need to make sure that you're not doing anything that brings too much attention to yourself. But for me, that didn't feel right because I was like, there aren't a lot of people that their little light is. They actually like having the spotlight on them.
Speaker 1:Because I looked around and I would see people that didn't enjoy the spotlight, and I was like, don't worry, Fran. I got you. I got you. I will take this. Like, I got it.
Speaker 1:And because in particular, I found that that was a place that I found that I could find a lot. I I could fill a space for some of my friends that were like, I don't wanna be in the spotlight, but I wanna be in the mix. Yeah. I wanna have like a way of being like in it, but not having to be be it. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I found maybe me being it is how I fill that space for some of my friends that don't wanna be in that space. And when I tried to explain that to my mom of just like, you know what? This is my thing that I find. This is how I get to help people actually. And this is how I get to help myself because I love the way it feels.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:It always comes from your family. Right? But yeah. So Yeah. Mine wasn't necessarily being in the spotlight.
Speaker 3:I just wanted to do all the things. Like, I don't want to be bored. Like and I do. I burn myself out sometimes as well. But, like, I just always wanna do all the things.
Speaker 3:What else can I do? How like, can I learn another language? Let's let's do an instrument this month.
Speaker 1:I don't know. Let's rock.
Speaker 3:But it is that's how I'm happy, and it it looks like chaos to other people. But, and they tell you to calm down and they tell you to be less, but and it took me, honestly, through my twenties, like, I I did. I muted myself and I put my head down and I just did the work, but you can't do that. I don't know. You just have to be you.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So
Speaker 1:You have to choose to not be in a space just to make other people comfortable.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You have no business making anyone else comfortable in this world if you aren't comfortable first. And that's, like, a very that's that's a very sobering realization, I think, because we spend so much of our lives serving other people. Yeah. And service is awesome because you do sometimes get to reconnect with yourself more through serving others. But again, it comes back to you have to reconnect with yourself.
Speaker 1:If you're gonna it's like an airplane. If you're gonna put the oxygen mask on anyone first, it has to be you Yeah.
Speaker 2:So that
Speaker 1:you can put the oxygen mask on someone else. Yeah. Girl, thank you. I feel like we're kind of nearing, our end here before this episode gets too long. But I do wanna ask you.
Speaker 1:As a young manager, if you had to talk to yourself back in the day, what would you what kind of advice would you give to someone out there that is battling with this or find trying to find a way out through this, and not over it through it because you gotta work through it. You can't just jump over these situations. What would you say to someone?
Speaker 3:I guess I wish at a younger age that I had found someone that looked like what I wanted to look like 10 years from now or whatever. And I reached out to them, and I wish that that's who I had surrounded myself with instead. I also think I spent a lot of time quieting myself in rooms that I maybe I would have gotten here even sooner. So it took me a while to get past just being in the shadows and not I mean, they'd ask a question, I'd have the answer, but I just wouldn't say it. So, I think those are the 2 things that I wish that I had done earlier that I would encourage people to do right after that.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Thank you for sharing that.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:If you had to have anyone on this podcast next, who would you who would you put out there?
Speaker 3:I think you mentioned Julie Samono. I think she would be really good. I actually don't know this person well and didn't even realize I had them on social media. I've just met them a few times. I don't know if you know her, Lindsay Strauss.
Speaker 3:She has been impressing me with some of her posts lately that she might not even know that I see. So sorry for putting that out there, but she's been really impressive to me lately as well. So yeah. Thank you. We have a good community here.
Speaker 1:So We do. We have a really amazing Columbus community. And in particular lately, I feel like there are a lot of, women that are really just ready. Yeah. Like, ready to connect and get into it and get get tuned in Yeah.
Speaker 1:And help each other. And I totally agree with everything that you said in terms of, like, sometimes you don't wanna reach out to people because you feel like this sense of, like, also embosser of, like, does this person even like you? Do I have any business reaching out to this person? Yeah. And, yes, you do.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yes, you do. You have every reason to reach out to anyone that you wanna connect with. So that's what I leave you with today. Thank you so much for coming on to the podcast.
Speaker 1:I really appreciate you sharing your perspective and your experience, and I'm really glad that we talked about this today because I feel like a lot of people you read in the study, it was, like, 71% of CEOs
Speaker 3:Yeah. Deal with times of feeling like they have impostor syndrome, which is crazy high number. I didn't expect to see that. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I agree. Yeah. I don't think I ever would have thought that it was that many, but yet
Speaker 3:That was the only
Speaker 2:thing we
Speaker 3:see and females together. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Somehow we are all experiencing these things and and and feeling these things and not talking about these things. And through conversation and just like openness and just being honest with each other. I think that that is how we really break through these things is we just talk. Yeah. Like, let's just talk.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So if you wanna talk with me some more, you can connect with us on the Just Between Us Girls podcast, if you have been here before. Thank you so much for coming back. I really appreciate you. This podcast, we are at over 300 listeners at this point, and I am beyond grateful because I did not know what this thing was gonna turn into, what it would become, and it's making spaces to have conversations like these, on a public forum that maybe people are listening to that haven't reached out to me yet.
Speaker 1:I don't know. But I'm having so many more amazing conversations because of it, and I just wanna thank you all. And if you are new to this episode or this season or this podcast in general, thank you so much for joining for the first time. I hope you come back for the next. I'll see you later.
Speaker 1:Thanks. Yay. Okay. Yeah. Whoo.
Speaker 1:Thank god. That was awesome.
Speaker 2:That was amazing. Thank you so much. Thank you.